Claire Kroulik-Klingenberg is a skeptical activist, a feminist, and a promoter of critical thinking. She got elected as president of the European Council of Skeptical Organizations in 2017 and is a frequent participant in podcasts and magazines such as the newly resurrected UK-based magazine Skeptic. Like me, she is excited to meet people at upcoming conferences such as the European Skeptics Conference in Vienna.

Annika Harrison: Hi Claire, thanks for joining me today! Can you maybe quickly introduce yourself?

Claire Kroulik-Klingenberg: My name is Claire Kroulik-Klingenberg. I live in Prague, Czech Republic, and I have been active in the skeptic movement since 2013. I currently serve as the president of ECSO, which is the European Council of Skeptical Organizations. I am also working on my degree in religious studies, which might seem strange for a skeptic, but it’s actually perfect. I live with my dog, who is also a big part of our skeptical activism. He takes part in the homeopathic overdose events every year! I also live with my husband, who is a stage hypnotist.

AH: How did you come to skepticism? Was it through your studies?

CKK: Yes, I joined a little bit by accident. I came back to Prague from studying overseas and really didn’t know which direction to take. At that time, the Czech Skeptic Challenge was getting started, and they were looking for people who would like to get involved in that. So, I came there just interested and as a person helping to assess the individual candidates and helping to run the project itself. Actually, I came there only half-skeptical—I certainly wasn’t a full-blown skeptic at that time. I was more of a person wishing there actually was really something, but bumping against my reasoning and hitting the wall of all kinds of pesky evidence to the contrary that I wanted to learn more about. Through that I got interested in the skeptic world and started to learn more and more about it. Two years later, there was the European Skeptics Congress in London. There it was decided that the next Skeptics Congress would be a cooperation between the Czech Skeptics and the Polish Skeptics, and since I was one of the few people who had some experience in organizing large events in the Czech group, I was asked to help out with this. Because of that, I got more and more into the skeptic movement and discovered my home.

AH: Why is skepticism important?

CKK: Though the history of the modern skeptic movement reaches into the nineteenth century, I believe that our time is now. Scientific findings are not enough. Taking into account that today you can really find a study supporting any opinion, it is our role as skeptics to help educate the public about quality sources, manipulation methods, and misinformation methods, the latter two being most important, employed by individuals and interest groups.

AH: Are you a member of any skeptical organizations?

CKK: I am a member of the Czech Skeptics Club Sisyfos. It, as its counterparts, does a lot of grassroots activism within the country. We organize about sixty talks a year, hold an annual conference, give out an anti-prize for confusing the public (The Erratic Boulder), and a positive prize for quality science communication (the prize of the late Jiri Hert, who wrote the first compendium analyzing alternative medicine in Czech). We also participate in various festivals, both woo and science oriented, do media appearances … Whatever is needed, we are there.

Sisyfos is a member of the umbrella organization ECSO.

AH: What are ECSO’s goals, and what is it about?

CKK: ECSO got formed as an umbrella organization to unite various skeptical groups across Europe. We all have the same goals and deal with similar issues, we just have language barriers and ECSO has been trying to bridge those gaps. Our precise goals are stated on the website, but the general point of them is to work together to promote evidence-based policy and to communicate science.

AH: The European Skeptics Congress will happen in September 2022. What are you most excited about?

CKK: Everything! Primarily to hug as many skeptical people as they allow me to do so. I have deeply missed seeing everyone in human form. Second, of course, the wonderful program that awaits us this year. We decided to focus on panels and discussions, and there will be a lot to discuss. Where is the skeptic movement headed? What are effective drug policies? How do we explain the “I don’t knows” of science? Can we implement evidence-based education in schools? And, due to the date, was 9/11 an inside job? (And other conspiracies)

AH: Have you ever been to Vienna? What can visitors do outside of the conference events in September?

CKK: Yes, Vienna is one of my favorite cities. Apart from the congress, you can also sign up for a spooky, 100 percent authentic ghost tour that will tickle the funny bone of any skeptic. If you want to go on your own and it’s your first time, don’t forget to check out the experimental architecture building Hundertwasserhaus, go see an opera at Opera Wien, take a ride on the Prater ferris wheel, and if you eat meat, taste the Tafelspitz.

AH: What were your “skeptical highlights” during the past five years?

CKK: Every conference or congress I visit is a skeptical highlight for me. The intimate European Skeptics Congress in Ghent was absolutely lovely. The advantage of the ESC, apart from seeing all my wonderful European colleagues, is the opportunity to explore a different ECSO member country each time. I am looking forward to the upcoming ESC in Vienna, as it is one of my favorite cities.

Apart from the gatherings, I am excited about the skeptic TV show we’ve been working on for the past five years. It should premier in autumn, and we will make sure to have English subtitles as soon as possible.

Another highlight happened just last week: the Czech Ministry of Defense finally—also after five years—gave us keys to a decommissioned bunker. It will be turned into the International Center for Paranormal Research.

AH: What is special about skepticism in Europe in comparison to skepticism in the United States? Are there any differences?

CKK: I would say the philosophy is the same, but each country infuses their skeptic movement with their culture, their “modus operandi.” For example, the skeptic groups in the United States seem to be more at ease when it comes to asking for donations and general financial support. I think many national groups in Europe could learn something from that confidence.

At the same time, it is that same thing that makes groups in Europe more accessible, more inclusive. For example, the pricing of conferences and congresses is done with the attendees in mind, not for the benefit of the group/organizers, which in turn does have an effect on other activities of the groups throughout the year.

I understand that this financial component can seem superficial; it’s just the first difference that comes to mind and funding is a key issue, even for groups predominately running on volunteers.

AH: Which three books should every skeptic have read and why?

CKK: Well … I have a list of thirty books every skeptic should read. But ok, the first would be a classic: Flim Flam by James Randi. It’s like a rite of passage. The second would be Democracy and Education by John Dewey. It captures the essence of the importance of education to the society as a whole and how we can all thrive when we try to meaningfully educate everyone; this thinking, to me, is the fuel of skeptical activism. It gives skepticism an empathetic edge that some might lack. And finally, Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. Though it focuses on gender data bias, it can be an awakening to the issue of bias in science and its detrimental effects. It serves as a reminder that scientific research can be only as objective as the people conducting it are, and we should strive for more inclusive input data to get an accurate depiction of the world around us.

AH: What are your hobbies? What do you do in your spare time or to relax?

CKK: Hobbies? Ah, yes, my therapist mentioned I should get some of those. To be honest, my work and my areas of interests are interconnected. Both my husband and I are self-employed, so we don’t get spare time, time off, or weekends. I do enjoy doing Wing Tsun, but did fall out of that during the pandemic. I want to pick it up again. I relax on walks with our dog. We did try jogging together once. I am not sure which one of us enjoyed it less.

AH: Did your work as a skeptic change during the pandemic?

CKK: Yes. The same as everyone else; it all moved onto the internet. I really missed working with people in person and doing talks and seeing the faces in a room, not in squares. Also, before the pandemic started, I was going down into a depression anyways and the pandemic made it that much worse.

AH: If a new skeptic would ask you how to become active, what would you tell them?

CKK: First, welcome!

Specific advice would be tailored to age, expertise, abilities, and time available. However, these would be my three tips:

Find a group or groups near you and meet them (in person now, yay!), ask them if they need help, and see how your skill set and their activities can complement each other (maybe they need a lecturer in your area of expertise, maybe they need help with the visual side of social media platforms, maybe they need someone to help proofread and edit magazine articles …)

If you want to do your own thing, too, figure out what sets you apart: How is your perspective unique/different, both to the public and within the skeptical community? Do you have an unusual expertise? Do you connect well with new people? Do you have unique experiences that can be used as a backdrop to your work? Once you figure that out, start with skeptical activism within a small demographic (using social media, podcasts, or whichever form you prefer) and slowly build up from a stable base.

And third, take time off. Seriously. The more enthusiastic you are about this new chapter, the more steps back you should take. Us skeptics, especially skeptical activists, do overexert ourselves at times and put ourselves, our health—both mental and physical—last. So, just keep that in mind.

AH: What are your goals for the coming years? What are you looking forward to? What are you afraid of?

CKK: My main goal is to play a role in making the skeptic community more empathetic, friendlier, with a welcoming image toward and to the outside world. The only way we can succeed in communicating science and in warning people away from harmful practices is through trust on a personal level. We have to show who we are: slightly awkward geeks and dorks with big hearts who are both rational and idealistic.

AH: Thanks for the interview!